S01E11 – Healing with Love and Forgiveness with Leonard Laskow MD

Dr Leonard Laskow discusses the science of love and how to transcend our roles and thinking minds to access healing.

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Transcript

Announcer:
Welcome to Heart Based Medicine’s Heart of Healthcare podcast featuring Leonard Laskow, M.D., Healing with Love and Forgiveness.

Jan Bonhoeffer:
Leonard Laskow, thank you. Thank you so much for taking the time. I’m really honored to be here with you in your home, in your place where you live now in Switzerland. You have been to me like a star on the horizon of pioneers of love in medicine and healing with love. You’ve written a book called Healing with Love, and then a second one, Forgiving Love.

Leonard Laskow:
And I’m working on a third now, Choose Peace Now.

Jan Bonhoeffer:
Choose Peace Now, beautiful. We’re curious to hear about that, too. But maybe just … For many, you don’t need an introduction, but for those who don’t know you yet, you have your life story. You’ve dedicated your life to healing with love. At some point, maybe if you allow, we can go back a little bit in time and see there was a time when you were trained as a physician, as an OB/GYN physician. Then something happened that changed your tracks a little bit. Could you tell us about that?

Leonard Laskow:
Well, I’ve been a physician … it’s hard to believe now, looking at it, for about 57 years, and done deliveries, and surgeries, and so on. But, at one point in my life I started feeling that there was something beyond being a doctor. It was a calling that I heard. Anyway, so I started going to some seminars. There was one seminar that I went to, and I was meditating, and it was 2:00 in the morning. The room was dark, a then suddenly, it seemed like it was filled with light. I opened my eyes, and the room was still dark. I closed my eyes, and again there was this inner luminosity.

Leonard Laskow:
Then I felt that there was a presence of some sort in the room. Then, I heard inside my head what I’d say is a voice. The voice said, “Your work is to heal with love.” It was incredibly clear. I said, “Oh, so I’m worthy.” And this presence said, “You are no more or less worthy than anyone else. Your work is to heal with love.” It was so clear. It was so incredible. Hairs stood up in the back of my neck, tears started spontaneously rolling down my cheeks. I knew it was true, but I didn’t know what it meant. What was love, and what was healing? But that was my work, and I was so grateful that I heard that this is truly my work. I realized that going into medicine was a contribution to this work, but this was the greater work. Wow.

Leonard Laskow:
So anyway, that set me up. Now I knew. And that’s the title of the book, Healing with Love. Interestingly enough, the editors at Harper, the publishers of the book, didn’t like the title Healing with Love. They said it’s a little hokey, Healing with Love. I said, “It has to be that,” because I knew it was coming from grace. I couldn’t identify what the source is. It didn’t matter. I knew that it was coming from beyond my thinking mind, and that’s all that mattered to me. So that’s how that really began.

Leonard Laskow:
Then other things happened. Well, one thing that happened was I was at another seminar, and I had as my roommate a composer of children’s songs. It turned out that he had metastatic lung cancer. He had seven golf ball-sized lesions in one lung, and 10 in another. One kidney was nonfunctional with cancer. So, during the first night, I was awakened. I could hear he was having trouble breathing, and it sounded like he was in pain. I got up and I said, “Can I help you?” He’s from Australia. He said, “Anything, mate. Anything.”

Leonard Laskow:
I stopped thinking. I just sat down on his bed and I put my hands on both sides of his chest, spontaneously visualized a radiant ball of sun above my head, and felt like this radiant sun moved down through the top of my head to my heart. Again, this was all spontaneous. The energy flowed out through my shoulders, into my hands, and there I recreated spontaneously this radiant sun between my hands and just held it there. There was no other intention than that. Just held it there.

Leonard Laskow:
Then he started to take deep breaths, and he said, “Oh, thanks, doc. The pain’s gone. The pain’s gone.” So then I got up and I … He slept well that night. When he got up in the morning, he said, “You know, doc, you’re really a healer.” And I thought, “Healing with love.” I know that I didn’t do anything as an intentional person, but energy came through me, and that subsequently became important in the work that I learned to do in healing with love. So, it wasn’t my personal doing. It was some kind of a transcendent energy that could come through if it was allowed. It felt like an unconditional love. It was beyond conditionality. So, that was one thing.

Leonard Laskow:
Then I started to say, “Well, what is this healing, and what is this love?” That’s what started me in the laboratory. I wanted to know what was going … Other things happened after that, which is in … I recount in the book other healings that occurred over the course of a year. So I knew there was something here, but I needed to explore what is this thing called love?

Jan Bonhoeffer:
It’s not something you had written … you read in the textbooks.
Leonard Laskow:
No, no, no.

Jan Bonhoeffer:
It’s not something you read in the medical textbooks.

Leonard Laskow:
No. Now, if you go to a medical textbook and you look up the index, and you look up love, you won’t find it. I don’t even think you’ll find it today.

Jan Bonhoeffer:
No. I searched for it. It’s very limited, let’s say, in the medical literature. There is some, but very limited.

Leonard Laskow:
Yeah.

Jan Bonhoeffer:
I looked at it in the World Health Organization. I thought, “Well, if anywhere, then the organization representing healthfulness planning.” But, no.

Leonard Laskow:
See, what you find is the biology of love. That you can find, the hormones associated with it, and so on. I’ve subsequently integrated that in the book that I do, in the books. I even talk about the biology of forgiveness. But anyway, other healings took place, especially in the gynecologic area, which I write about, and so on. But, the other healings encouraged me to speak to my colleagues who had university connections. I said, “Let’s do this research.” We set up the research and we did it.

Leonard Laskow:
One other thing that happened that was important for me was that I started to do research with salmonella, and … Yeah, so that was very interesting. In preparation for the research, I looked under the microscope at a Petri dish containing salmonella. As I was looking at the salmonella, something shifted in me. Suddenly, I realized the same creator that created me created the salmonella. It was just that with my medical background, I called it a pathogen that causes disease, that causes dysentery in humans.

Leonard Laskow:
But something shifted and it was like my consciousness and the consciousness of the bacteria became one at the level of consciousness. That turned out to be very important, at the level of consciousness. There was a connection with all life in that moment. It was beyond a placebo. Then, at that moment I said, “Reduce your growth rate.” I didn’t want to just kill it because I just acknowledged it had the same right to live that I did. It’s just that my medical training shifted. That thought, it was a thought.

Leonard Laskow:
We became one at the level of consciousness, and then I … asking it to reduce its growth rate. It reduced its growth rate by 50% relative to controls. Then we did some more research with antibiotics, different antibiotics. We wanted to see if the antibiotics could protect the bacteria from the lethal effects of the antibiotic, and we found that it could. I did this with the biophysicists, microbiologists at UC Berkeley. So, that was what got me started because I knew now that this was real, that healing with love was real. It really works. We didn’t know all the details, but I knew that it worked, and that’s what really got me going in all of this. Anyway, that’s the story. That’s the story.

Jan Bonhoeffer:
That was the beginning of-

Leonard Laskow:
That’s the beginning.

Jan Bonhoeffer:
Of a life’s dedication to healing with love, and to developing processes-

Jan Bonhoeffer:
And giving seminars, and supporting healthcare professionals-
Leonard Laskow:
Exactly.

Jan Bonhoeffer:
To feel like following your footsteps.

Leonard Laskow:
Yes.

Jan Bonhoeffer:
And to join you on your path.
Leonard Laskow:
Yeah.

Jan Bonhoeffer:
Could you tell us a little bit about these seminars and what you are teaching?

Leonard Laskow:
Well, what I realized is that it’s not about doing more healing work for me. In other words, there are countless people who would need healing, and you could spend how many lifetimes doing more and more healing. My work was not about just healing. It was finding out how and why healing with love worked. Your work is to heal with love. It wasn’t about just doing more healing. So that was the key to really explore what that was, and what’s the deepest healing. The deepest healing is healing into oneness. In every form of love is a way of merging into oneness, whether it’s love of food, or love of a lover, a husband, a wife, children. There’s a quality of resonance of merging into oneness with that person at whatever level it takes place at.

Leonard Laskow:
And what’s the highest level of merging? Merging with source, merging with the formless one, beyond the form, and including the form. It’s merging with the duality and non-duality, transcending both into oneness. That’s the highest learning. That’s what we’ve all come here for, regardless of what we’re doing, regardless of doctoring, or nursing, or whatever other form of help, or … We all came here for that. Whether we realize it or not this lifetime, there’ll be other opportunities to explore that.

Leonard Laskow:
But, so in answer to your question, what I did was I developed processes that allow people to come home to who they really are, to their, you could say, essential nature. But it’s beyond their essential nature. It’s into oneness. At oneness, you’re not male and you’re not female. You’re both and neither. Wow. That’s profound. And how to be there. So, what do you have to do in order to get there? Well, you have to transcend the thinking mind with its condition. And how do you do that? Well, sometimes you have to trick it because it’s very clever. It wants to stay what it considers alive, make you think that who you are is it, the thinking mind. Wow. So how do you do that? That’s what these processes are ultimately about.

Jan Bonhoeffer:
You’re dealing with a, let’s say, difficult audience because they have been very highly trained in the conceptualized mind.

Leonard Laskow:
Sure. Exactly.

Jan Bonhoeffer:
As physicians, we have been trained to conceptualize the world, and to conceptualize health and illness, and as you said, pathogens, so what is good and bad.

Leonard Laskow:
Exactly.

Jan Bonhoeffer:
There are all sorts of labels.

Leonard Laskow:
Right.

Jan Bonhoeffer:
As far as I can see, is that they arise from a very … this way of thinking arises from a laudable aim to try and classify and come to grips with the three-dimensional world-

Leonard Laskow:
Exactly.

Jan Bonhoeffer:
For the price of simplifying. But what you’re saying is there is a way to not having to simplify.

Leonard Laskow:
Sure.

Jan Bonhoeffer:
But there’s a way to directly connect-

Leonard Laskow:
Exactly.

Jan Bonhoeffer:
Without this missing, what we’ve learned.

Leonard Laskow:
Sure. Well-

Jan Bonhoeffer:
Without dismissing the logical mind.

Leonard Laskow:
Well, you know the conscious mind has functions, and one of its functions is to categorize and compartmentalize, and function in that way. So, the functional mind is valuable in interacting in a day to day life. You have to catch the train. You have time. Time and space are important. This is a space, and there are certain times, and you have to function in that way. The thing to know is, it’s like getting into a car. You go and get in, drive it, takes you where you want to go, and then you park it, and you leave it.

Leonard Laskow:
Of course, we can’t do that most of the time with the mind, so that scares people because how can they function without a mind? But you have to transcend the mind to go to the space of oneness because it’s beyond the mind. So, how to do that? What’s interesting is … which is what I discovered for me, is the way to transcend the mind is to go into the heart and go not just into the heart, but into the heart’s space. Because really, what we’re talking about is beyond time and space.

Jan Bonhoeffer:
So, what do you mean by the heart’s space? [crosstalk 00:18:27] Leonard Laskow:
Well, that’s a process. I won’t take you through that process today, but that’s a process. Maybe sometime we can do it. By the way, it’s in the book. It’s in Forgiving Love.

Jan Bonhoeffer:
Forgiving Love.

Leonard Laskow:
The latest. Because there’s a headspace and a heart space. There are some people who can’t move into the heart space directly just because of what you had mentioned because they’re so focused … And as a doctor, I’m very … I understand that kind of focus that has to take place. But we can transcend the headspace if we know how to do it. So this is what the work is about. Forgiving Love is, in part, is forgiving yourself for not knowing that you need to transcend the headspace. Isn’t that beautiful?

Jan Bonhoeffer:
Beautiful. Before we go into … I’m really curious to go through this process with you. But before we go there, I would really love to know what you have observed as a result of your teachings and seminars. You have been teaching medical professionals and-

Leonard Laskow:
Yes.

Jan Bonhoeffer:
And non-medical professionals.

Leonard Laskow:
Sure.

Jan Bonhoeffer:
Other professional backgrounds.

Leonard Laskow:
Sure. I’ve given seminars in, so far, 15 countries, and two-week seminars in Bali, and Hawaii, things like that. I’ve given … So, 15 countries and so on. Now I’m retired, so I’ve stopped giving seminars. That’s one of the things my wife asked about. “Well, you’ve retired. What do you have to say?” I said, “Well, wait a minute. I still have some things to say.”

Jan Bonhoeffer:
Thank you for sharing so that those who wish to follow in your footsteps, and who wish to build on your work can.

Leonard Laskow:
That’s my hope, that this will spark, ignite an inner flame so that people can experience their own inner light and truly come home to who they are. What I discovered was that it’s really important to, at some point, love yourself the way you would like to be loved by others. It’s almost the teaching of Jesus to say that, and it’s come from a very profound place for him. So, that’s important, how to unconditionally love yourself. Then-

Jan Bonhoeffer:
Also, something that is not very familiar to physicians. We’re used to altruistic service.

Leonard Laskow:
Right.

Jan Bonhoeffer:
Many physicians, at least, share the trait of not taking care of themselves, not even taking care of themselves, not to speak of true love. Not talking about aloofness or egotistic self-love-

Leonard Laskow:
Exactly.

Jan Bonhoeffer:
But true, unconditional self-love.

Leonard Laskow:
Absolutely.

Jan Bonhoeffer:
It’s something that we’re not trained in.

Leonard Laskow:
I still remember once I was doing surgery and I guess I had the flu or something, and so I was operating with an assistant surgeon. I just felt I couldn’t continue. I broke out in a sweat. The anesthesiologist said something to my associate surgeon, and he got up and led me to the doctor’s room, and got me lying down on the couch there. My assistant surgeon continued the work. He was also a fully-fledged OB/GYN. He wasn’t … But you see, we discount our self. We’re trained to do that. We’re trained with regard to our feelings as well, not to have the feelings of deep compassion and love.

Leonard Laskow:
We have to transcend our role as a … not just as a physician, but also all the other roles that society assigns to us as fathers, mothers, husbands, wives, sisters, brothers. We have to transcend those, ultimately, to really look at who we really, really are, and get to the point where we discover who we really, really are. It’s an awareness of awareness because, without that, we wouldn’t be aware of anything else. So, that’s primary, the awareness of awareness, which is called consciousness, by the way. Coming home to a consciousness which is beyond form. Beyond form. We go from the form to the formless, to oneness. That’s what I’ve learned over the course of all these years.

Leonard Laskow:
Then, to develop processes to take people home. How does that work? Some of the processes involve eye to eye connection with another person and then asking that person … Because when you focus eye to eye like that, you start to shift into consciousness. There’s an intermediary called the soul, which is the interface between consciousness … between form and formless. We learn in the seminars how to do that. Shift first to soul, and then through the eye to eye dyadic processes with questions, like the other person will say, “From your heart space, tell me who you are in this moment.” Wow.

Leonard Laskow:
Then there’s nothing … There’s no nodding from the person who asked you the question, no grimacing, no smiling, no, “Yes, yes, that’s the right answer,” or, “No, that’s not …” See, that person is just a consciousness mirror for you, and that’s profound, these eye to eye exercises. I’m just giving you just a touch of the power of these. You have to transcend, as I say, the mind. These are ways that you do that.

Jan Bonhoeffer:
You have discovered this over the years, and still you were practicing.

Leonard Laskow:
Yes.

Jan Bonhoeffer:
You were still a practicing physician.

Leonard Laskow:
Yes.

Jan Bonhoeffer:
How did this change your own life, your own perception, and way of being a physician?

Leonard Laskow:
I started having the success with healing with patients, and yet, what I was doing was I was focusing energy on my hands, through my hands, loving energy, and changes were occurring. But I was concerned that in California, the Board of Medical Examiners would come knocking at my door and say, “So, this patient came to you with this, this, and this problem, and then you did what, what, what?” And I thought, “Well, I’m a board-certified obstetrician/gynecologist, life fellow, and you did what?”

Leonard Laskow:
So I got concerned, and I slowed down because I was starting to get busy with people saying they were coming in and getting some healing work done. I said, well, that’s why I have to do the research, to somehow find out how this worked, to justify it. So my work is not to do more healing work because it’s almost infinite. It’s really to do the research and to find out where I’m really going. That’s when I discovered the real work of love is transcendence into oneness.

Jan Bonhoeffer:
Those who you have trained, those physicians you have trained, did you get feedback from them how their experience and how their practice has changed based on your training?

Leonard Laskow:
Well, I wound up working mostly with people who are French. They were speaking the language, and everything that I was doing was translated into French. I found that some of the people who took the work focused on the processes, but they didn’t have the consciousness to take it all the way. So there are a few who have done that and now share it and teach it. But most are working with the processes. One is called the tracing process, which takes people back to sometimes their mother’s womb, and picking up as a fetus precognitively, pre verbally, what it is that the mother was feeling. But not only the mother, what the mother was feeling in her culture, in her religion, and what the father was feeling. The father wanted a boy, and the fetus was a female. As a fetus, it picked that up pre verbally, precognitively.

Leonard Laskow:
When we did a tracing process on this person who came to the seminar, I remember one person vividly, and she was very athletic. She was about 32 years old, very competitive, won lots of medals, and so on. Had trouble with her menstrual cycle because she was very athletic. We went back to the time when she was in her mother’s womb and realized that her father wanted a boy. The next day when she came into the seminar, her hair was totally different. She was totally different, and she had started her menstrual cycle for the first time in about eight months. It totally changed her life.

Leonard Laskow:
This is just an example of the things that happen when you go back to a time. I call it fishing because you have to … It doesn’t always work, but sometimes it’s so profound. Then we have other processes. The ancestral harmonization process, which takes you back. You do a genogram, and it takes you back through your ancestral tree. You find out where these conditioning thoughts and experiences come from, then you release them, and you also release ancestors who may no longer be in physical form. Amazing. And you do that for your children, as well, because they’re picking up the same information. It’s been quite an amazing journey. I didn’t know where it would go when we started, but this is what we found.

Jan Bonhoeffer:
Beautiful. I would love to have maybe at a separate occasion, I would love to have a conversation with you about that science of healing with love, so what you found in your research and what you know about others have found.

Leonard Laskow:
Sure.

Jan Bonhoeffer:
And your attempt to bring these two worlds together. But you have already mentioned a process that you would like to share.

Leonard Laskow:
Yes.

Jan Bonhoeffer:
I’d be very curious to learn about this. This is one of the key processes in the Healing with Love.

Leonard Laskow:
Right, right. I call this, in fact, the unconditional love process. It’d be wonderful if people would be willing to experience unconditional love because most of the love that we really have is conditioned, conditioned love. By the way, there is also another form of love which I call the non-conditioned love. The unconditioned love has a vector or an object. You can direct it at a person or yourself. In this case, it’s yourself that you’re directing it toward. But non conditioned love is like the sun. It radiates on everything. It has no vector. It’s the same love, but without a vector.

Leonard Laskow:
I point this out in Forgiving Love just so people know that, because that non-conditioned love is sometimes like the love that Jesus talked about. So, if people are ready now, they can gently close their eyes and allow themselves to begin to relax. One of the best ways to relax is to become aware of your breathing. Just aware that when you’re breathing in, you’re breathing in, and when you’re breathing out, you’re breathing out. If other thoughts, or feelings, or sensations come to mind, just gently, but firmly, bring your awareness … bring your awareness back to your breath.

Leonard Laskow:
In this peaceful space, allow yourself to begin to feel in the center of your chest a sense of complete and total, boundless, infinite love for yourself. For yourself. A love for every organ, every atom in your body, for every part of your being. Now, this is a love with no comparisons, no judgments, no attachment to outcome, a love without condition, or reason, or cause, beyond all time and space, a love even beyond understanding.

Leonard Laskow:
With your next breath, allow your whole chest to fill with loving light, moving up into your shoulders and down your arms to your fingertips. Allow the light to move up into your neck and up into your head, filling your entire head. Imagine this loving light filling your entire head so completely that it begins to flow out the top of your head like a fountain of loving light, a fountain of loving light cascading down over and through your body, flowing through your body and out your feet into the earth below. Flowing, clearing, releasing, dissolving. Dissolving the illusion of separation that veils you from your essential nature.

Leonard Laskow:
Now, allow yourself to feel the exquisite love of your essential nature. Allow yourself to feel the exquisite love of your essential nature. This is a love that, like the sun, is ever-present. Like the sun, it’s sometimes obscured by clouds. Like the sun that patiently waits for the Earth to rotate out of darkness into its light again, this exquisite love patiently waits for you, its expression in form, to ask, to open, to receive its love. And so, a love beyond earning, beyond learning, a love ever-present. Ever present. Allow yourself to feel this exquisite love suffusing your entire body from the top of your head to the tips of your fingers and toes until your body glows with this exquisite love. Just allow it in.

Leonard Laskow:
Now, ask this exquisite love to heal what needs to be healed, love what needs to be loved, do what needs to be done, to bring me into wholeness so that we, form and essence, are one. So that we, form and essence, are one. Now, if there is an area of your body calling for love, attention, and healing, if there’s an area of your body calling for love, attention, and healing, place your attention and/or hands-on that area, and silently say, “Return to your natural order, harmony, structure, and function, already healed and whole, already healed and whole.”

Leonard Laskow:
Just ask. Just ask, and then allow it. Allow it to be done. Allow it to be done by divine grace, and it is done. You are one, eternally, infinitely, only one. Focus again on the center of your chest, feeling that sense of complete, total, boundless, infinite love. Take in a deep breath and hold it for a moment, and when you release it, send a burst of light from the center of your chest to every cell, every atom in your body, so they scintillate and sparkle like stars on a brilliant night. From stardust to stardust. When you’re ready, gently opening your eyes, alive and aware, here and now. See, and this resonates with your unconditional love for yourself.

Jan Bonhoeffer:
Thank you.

Leonard Laskow:
Yes. Welcome home.

Jan Bonhoeffer:
Thanks a lot for sharing this with us.

Leonard Laskow:
Yes.

Jan Bonhoeffer:
Thanks a lot for taking the time.

Leonard Laskow:
It’s a blessing for me, and anyone else who is inspired by this.

Jan Bonhoeffer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Well-

Leonard Laskow:
And most importantly, including yourself. So thank you for being.

Announcer:
This has been a Heart Based Medicine production. Thanks for listening.